URTH |
From: "Alice Turner" <al@interport.net> Subject: (urth) Theodicy Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 09:23:56 [Posted from URTH, a mailing list about Gene Wolfe's New Sun and other works] > Gimmeabreak! Was Shakespeare writing tracts instead of plays, because he > had messages for the monarchs? This does not parse. > >> Slimey Alga wrote: > >> > >> >Ratty, > >> > > >> >I define a Christian as someone who believes that he or she will attain > >> >eternal salvation through Jesus Christ. Severian has never heard of > >Jesus > >> >Christ, and he himself has brought salvation (through destruction) to > >Urth. > >> > >> Whoa! Agia refers to the Theoanthropos in 1:21. Also, in that chapter > >the > >> woman missionary (Marie - Mary) is reading from the Urth equivalent of > >> Deuteronomy 34. (1:21 = Shadow, ch. 21). [skip] > Well, there are two questions here: 1. Is there a "Jesus Christ" in the > Urth/Whorl universe; and 2. Is Severian a self-conscious follower of that > person? The answer to "1" is what I was dealing with. Some wrote that Jesus > is unknown in the Urth/Whorl universe. I pointed out that he clearly is, > because of "Theoanthropos." The more obvious line of evidence is the Silk > quartet, where references to the crucifixion, to the sign of the cross, > etc. are more in evidence. > As for question 2., I don't know. Wolfe says that Severian is not what he > regards as a Christ figure (allegory of Christ, I take it), but a Christian > figure (allegory of a Christian, I take it). I don't understand why anyone > wants to insist that Wolfe intends something he has stated clearly that he > does not intend. Almost certainly, Agia's Theoanthropos does refer to JC, though probably not consciously. (If it were conscious, and she a believer, that would be interesting, considering her character.) But he's not the only hero with such claims. Gilgamesh was 2/3 god and only 1/3 human; Herakles was 1/2 god. And so on. Urth is very old, and ancient stories tend to conflate, as the Brown Book shows us again and again. The Theoanthropos could be taken as a composite figure, as indeed Silk's Outsider seems to be. In any case, he doesn't seem to register with Severian. As for Severian's being a Christian, well, let's agree to differ. Your idea (and perhaps Wolfe's) of what constitutes a Christian, even allegorically (whatever that may mean in this context), is not mine, nor, it seems, that of many of the rest of this group. [skip: kittens as baseballs] > Well, that's (a) an irrelevant ad hominem argument, and (b) at least as > false as true. (a) Granted. (I did put it in parens.) (b.) How so? > BTW, are you the authoress of a book on hell that I happen to have on my > shelf? I haven't looked at your shelf recently, but probably. Quaint term. -alga-