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From: "J. Schultz" <jschultz@wcnet.org>
Subject: (urth) Typhon, exultants, Miles, and RAW
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 17:36:30 

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Just a few clarifications on my position which I wasn't clear on,

Thank you all for responding to my post,
Chris Culver,
    I did not mean to say that Typhon and the exultants left Urth.  =
However, I believe there is a mention that the exultants are invaders =
from "another shore" and I think it has been stated that Typhon may have =
been their leader.  When I say that Typhon returned to Urth, I mean more =
in the sense that you or I may return to our "homeland."  That is to say =
that Typhon may come from a planet that was a part of the old galactic =
empire of Urth.  In the fall of the galactic empire many areas would =
have been cut off from other areas of the galaxy.  These areas would =
develop their own cultures and genetic traits over centuries. (maybe =
hundreds of centuries)  I see Typhon as a sort of provincial general who =
desires to rebuild the empire to its glory days and decides to set up =
the throne on the "most ancient of planets" Urth.  In the end it is only =
my theory to try to explain why Typhon and the exultants are said to =
come from another planet, be so similar to 'stock' humans, and yet be so =
very different (as in: snow white complextions, extreme height, =
ruthlessness). =20

As to the nature of Jonas, Hethor, and KLS.  I agree whole heartedly =
that Jonas, Hethor, and KLS are all the same type of sailors lost in the =
sea of time, trapped in a future they didn't expect.  At least Jonas =
didn't come back to Earth to find it overrun by talking apes!  : )   =
"Get your filthy hands off me, you damn animals!"  (or something like =
that)

Mantis:
    I've read the archives and once again you've blown me away with your =
knowledge of Urth factoids.  I'm intruiged.  Where are the mentions of =
Venus and Mars terraforming and their respective names found in the =
text?  And where is the mention of the Xanthic continent with =
posthistorical starfarers?  I'd like to reread those sections.

As for the Miles/Jonas enigma, ....  I'm stumped.  When I first read it, =
I always thought it was vague.  Then in TUotNS, Gunny (I believe her =
name is) uses the same kind of Jonas-speak analogies and Sev. questions =
her on it.  She says its just the way sailors talk.  From this I =
gathered that maybe Miles was never really Jonas and maybe just a sailor =
as well.   HOWEVER, I recently reread the section and its really fishy.  =
Severian thinks he sees Jonas walking next to him when he and Miles are =
walking together.  When Sev. asks Miles his real name, Miles responds =
that he doesn't know in a very Jonas sort of way.

Theory:  Whoever the soldier was, he is long dead.  His soul has moved =
on and can not be returned.  Severian, when he pokes the claw into the =
solidiers forehead forces the body to come back to life.  Since you =
can't have a living body without a soul, a doorway is opened for Jonas =
back into the world of Urth.

By the way, If I ever had to get anywhere in the galaxy, you bet your =
ass I'd stay far away from Father Inire's mirrors.  There about as =
predictable as a two year old.  They seem to take you to places between =
reality, rather than places in reality.  Thus everything that goes into =
the mirrors enters some sort of 'Alice Throught the Looking Glass' =
world.

Finally Mantis:
    I'm glad your a reader of RAW.  He and Wolf are on the top shelf on =
my bookshelf.  Strange that I would join one author's group and =
instantly find reference to the other.  RAW would call in synchronicity, =
I'm sure.  The story your talking about does not appear in the =
ILLUMINATUS! trilogy, to my knowledge, but it is an extremly long book =
and I may have missed it.  It may be in one of his many other works with =
the ILLUMINATI as the theme.  Be careful, though, RAW also says that =
John Dillinger was actually a quintuplet and one of them was the true =
assasin of JFK.  Wilson mixes fact and fiction so well its hard to tell =
when he's pulling your leg.
Hail Eris,
FunkMonkey





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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Just a few clarifications on my =
position which I=20
wasn't clear on,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Thank you all for responding to my=20
post,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT><FONT size=3D2>Chris =
Culver,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I did not=20
mean to say that Typhon and the exultants left Urth.&nbsp; However, I =
believe=20
there is a mention that the exultants are invaders from &quot;another=20
shore&quot; and I think it has been stated that Typhon may have been =
their=20
leader.&nbsp; When I say that Typhon returned to Urth, I mean more in =
the sense=20
that you or I may return to our &quot;homeland.&quot;&nbsp; That is to =
say that=20
Typhon may come from a planet that was a part of the old galactic empire =
of=20
Urth.&nbsp; In the fall of the galactic empire many areas would have =
been cut=20
off from other areas of the galaxy.&nbsp; These areas would develop =
their own=20
cultures and genetic traits over centuries. (maybe hundreds of =
centuries)&nbsp;=20
I see Typhon as a sort of provincial general who desires to rebuild the =
empire=20
to its glory days and decides to set up the throne on the &quot;most =
ancient of=20
planets&quot; Urth.&nbsp; In the end it is only my theory to try to =
explain why=20
Typhon and the exultants are said to come from another planet, be so =
similar to=20
'stock' humans, and yet be so very different (as in: snow white =
complextions,=20
extreme height, ruthlessness).&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>As to the nature of Jonas, Hethor, =
and=20
KLS.&nbsp; I agree whole heartedly that Jonas, Hethor, and KLS are all =
the same=20
type of sailors lost in the sea of time, trapped in a future they didn't =

expect.&nbsp; At least Jonas didn't come back to Earth to find it =
overrun by=20
talking apes!&nbsp; : )&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;Get your filthy hands off me, =
you damn=20
animals!&quot;&nbsp; (or something like that)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Mantis:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I've read=20
the archives and once again you've blown me away with your knowledge of =
Urth=20
factoids.&nbsp; I'm intruiged.&nbsp; Where are the mentions of Venus and =
Mars=20
terraforming and their respective names found in the text?&nbsp; And =
where is=20
the mention of the Xanthic continent with posthistorical =
starfarers?&nbsp; I'd=20
like to reread those sections.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>As for the Miles/Jonas enigma, ....&nbsp; I'm =
stumped.&nbsp;=20
When I first read it, I always thought it was vague.&nbsp; Then in =
TUotNS, Gunny=20
(I believe her name is) uses the same kind of Jonas-speak analogies and =
Sev.=20
questions her on it.&nbsp; She says its just the way sailors talk.&nbsp; =
From=20
this I gathered that maybe Miles was never really Jonas and maybe just a =
sailor=20
as well.&nbsp;&nbsp; HOWEVER, I recently reread the section and its =
really=20
fishy.&nbsp; Severian thinks he sees Jonas walking next to him when he =
and Miles=20
are walking together.&nbsp; When Sev. asks Miles his real name, Miles =
responds=20
that he doesn't know in a very Jonas sort of way.<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Theory:&nbsp; Whoever the soldier was, he is long =
dead.&nbsp;=20
His soul has moved on and can not be returned.&nbsp; Severian, when he =
pokes the=20
claw into the solidiers forehead forces the body to come back to =
life.&nbsp;=20
Since you can't have a living body without a soul, a doorway is opened =
for Jonas=20
back into the world of Urth.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>By the way, If I ever had to get anywhere in the =
galaxy, you=20
bet your ass I'd stay far away from Father Inire's mirrors.&nbsp; There =
about as=20
predictable as a two year old.&nbsp; They seem to take you to places =
between=20
reality, rather than places in reality.&nbsp; Thus everything that goes =
into the=20
mirrors enters some sort of 'Alice Throught the Looking Glass'=20
world.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Finally Mantis:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm glad=20
your a reader of RAW.&nbsp; He and Wolf are on the top shelf on my=20
bookshelf.&nbsp; Strange that I would join one author's group and =
instantly find=20
reference to the other.&nbsp; RAW would call in synchronicity, I'm =
sure.&nbsp;=20
The story your talking about does not appear in the ILLUMINATUS! =
trilogy, to my=20
knowledge, but it is an extremly long book and I may have missed =
it.&nbsp; It=20
may be in one of his many other works with the ILLUMINATI as the =
theme.&nbsp; Be=20
careful, though, RAW also says that John Dillinger was actually a =
quintuplet and=20
one of them was the true assasin of JFK.&nbsp; Wilson mixes fact and =
fiction so=20
well its hard to tell when he's pulling your leg.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT><FONT size=3D2>Hail =
Eris,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>FunkMonkey</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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