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From: "Peter T. Cash" <PTCash@ibm.net> Subject: (urth) Dualism & horror Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 23:04:33 >from alga: ... >Manichaeism: But Sarge, that's just exactly what Mani cobbled together, a >ragbag of a religion, borrowing from everything he knew of Buddhism, >Zoroastrianism, Christianity and Marcionism (Marcion taught that there were >two gods: capricious old Yaweh of the OT was similar to the Gnostic >Demiurge, while Jesus was son of the True God whose time would come). If >he'd known about Thor, he'd have thrown him in too. Mani would have been a >great scriptwriter for "Xena: Warrior Princess." And so would Dr. Talos, if >he got a decent editor. I know. Mani was the L. Ron Hubbard of the third century. >Mani's dualism came from the Zoroastrians (who supplied Meschia and Mechiane >to Dr. Talos) and he added the concept of Light vs. Darkness, so beloved of >gothic writers. Alex, you can't say that there is only Dark in Lovecraft, >for opposed to that is the normal world, represented, in Hollywood versions, >by pretty suburban streets. If you don't have a norm--Innsmouth or Arkham >before the horrors came--where's the scare? The Amurican Way of Life, that's >the Light. At least in novels. Alga, your thesis that horror is inherently (will that do instead of "necessarily"?) dualistic is so thought-provoking that I hate to spoil things by finding fault with it. However, I would venture that if suburbia is the light that opposes the Great Darkness, then we've got a pretty weak dualism. This light is a dim bulb, this divinity is one of communion by water and not wine. It is not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob illuminating this place. It's George Westinghouse. >I will back-pedal a bit on "necessarily," but only a bit. Since the end of >the 19th century, the Dark is not necessarily a Christian dark, in fact most >often it isn't. Despite the crucifix hocus-pocus, we do not think of >vampires as demons of Satan; they inhabit their own Dark. Werewolves are >folkloric, not Christian. Hyde, though a demon, is a metaphor for what Freud >would call the id, not a damned soul. Dorian Grey hides Hyde's face behind >his own (sorry about that sentence), but again it's extra-Christian. "How about "pagan" instead of "extra-Christian"? I don't think this darkness is anything new; perhaps after the 19th century it becomes "neo-paganism", that's all. I would argue that any work that doesn't have a Christian dimension but does deal with supernatural evil is pagan; any dualism is strictly secondary and quite uninteresting. (I'm not saying that pagan works necessarily lack value or interest, of course.) >Nevertheless, if only for convenience of term, I would argue that the gothic >tradition is Manichaean--with all the implicit messiness. Writers like C.S. >Lewis and Tolkien, who tidy up the mess, have made this even clearer, but >they are far ounumbered by the others. King now, a dualist to the Dark >Untidy Core. Never having read King and having not the slightest desire to do so, I'll have to withold judgment. I do believe you're helping me understand why I've always despised the horror genre. Since I do believe in the God of Abraham, this "supernatural evil" stuff seems a trifle silly to me; I just don't get it. I know that God permits evil in the world--but it's evil done by us humans--it is not supernatural. If Satan exists, he's void, in the sense of having no substance--I believe the common metaphor is say he is like a shadow. (Hmmm....shadows in Wolfe's works...not an uncommon theme. Hmmm.) >But nevertheless, Dr. Talos and his play do represent apocalyptic dualism, >Armagedon, Ragnarok, whatever. And it may be a mess, Sarge, but it belongs >too. I never meant to say it doesn't. Just that it's a mess, and maybe a bit of self-parody contained within the larger work. Sgt. Rock *More Wolfe info & archive of this list at http://www.urth.net/urth/