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From: "Tony Ellis" <tony.ellis@futurenet.co.uk>
Subject: (urth) re: More on Iron Men
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:55:59 +0100

Roy C Lackey wrote:

> Tony Ellis wrote:
> >>Yes. Sidero is a completely different kind of android to Jonas. The mere
> fact that Severian can climb inside him tells us that he is far more
> bulky than a human being. There is also moment in UOTNS when Severian
> actually sees two androids of Jonas's make.<<
>     Yes, Sidero is obviously larger than Sev, but not "far more bulky than a
> human being." In chapter II Sev describes him as "... a figure that might
> have been that of a massive man in armor complete."
You can't have it both ways, you know :-). If Sidero is the size of a
massive man in armour, he is by definition far bulkier than a human
being. He isn't just the size of a massive man, he's the size of a full
suit of armour big enough for that massive man to wear. That's pretty

>     There are two places where Sev says that Jonas was the same sort of
> android as Sidero: _Urth_, chapter VIII; "Sidero was an android, then, an
> automaton in human form such as my friend Jonas had once been."
Uh-uh. He isn't saying Sidero is the same -kind- of android as Jonas,
merely that -like- Jonas, Sidero is an android too.

> ...And, chapter
> XIII; "Sidero had been joined by two slender automatons, such creatures as I
> believe Jonas must once have been. It's stated twice. This second one must
> be the moment you were referring to.
Just so. Two -slender- automatons. Not two automatons the size of
massive men in full armour. Severian isn't saying that Jonas was the
same sort of android as Sidero, he's saying that he was the same sort of
android as the slender pair that he can now see beside Sidero, which are
clearly of a different design.

*More Wolfe info & archive of this list at http://www.urth.net/urth/

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