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From: Alex David Groce <Alex_Groce@gs246.sp.cs.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: (urth) Pelagianism
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 17:06:10 

Alga said:

>This doesn't seem to me to elucidate. Not your fault. I think we need to
>think about where Vodalus stands with regard to Ascianism--is he really
>a heartfelt ally, or just taking advantage of the fire-power? (Just the
>way we seem to be doing, economically,  toward China recently.) I
>incline toward the latter. I can't believe Vodalus would buy the Ascian
>social line.

It certainly seems that Vodalus is at least as opportunistic as
anything else--he seems more Nietzschean aristocrat than Ascian
ideologue.  On the other hand, he does reject the various hieros,
which (the way I'm thinking of it) is somewhat analogous to the
rejection of the need for Divine Grace.  Maybe, trying to stick to
this framework (however useful that may be) Vodalus is the other side
of the pseudo-Pelagian coin--the Ascians seek a perfected society
without the need of the Increate and Vodalus is seeking glory and
individual perfection (and a new human empire, it appears) via the
same means.  Of course, Vodalus and the Ascians aren't really so much
eschewing supra-human means as choosing supra-human sides--Abaia and
Erebus are clearly the masks behind the human faces, and the uniting
factor in the (otherwise) odd alliance of convenience.

As to the earlier comment about Vodalu's hope to return to space as
analogous to the rejection of Original Sin, although I still don't
have BOTNS on hand, all I was thinking was that Wolfe's vague
references to our crimes in our galaxy-spanning days and the plan to
keep us from returning to the stars until we are redeemed seems to
have clear connections to the idea of being turned out of the garden
after the Fall.  After all, we're clearly in Milton territory here,
justifying the ways of God to Man.

"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:32
Alex David Groce (agroce+@cs.cmu.edu)
Ph.D. Student, Carnegie Mellon University - Computer Science Department
8112 Wean Hall (412)-268-3066

*More Wolfe info & archive of this list at http://www.urth.net/urth/

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