Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 00:37:36 -0600
From: Jeff Wilson 
Subject: (urth) Re: The irrigation of Lune

> From: "Andy Robertson" 

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Wilson" 
> >
> > No. During the Apollo program, the measured amount of gas surrounding
> > the moon remained fairly constant, despite each landing adding an amount
> > of gaseous exhaust equal to the original natural contents.
> 
> I will chase this up :-)
> 
> > That would require "adding" the mass of Mars, at least.
> 
> So?

So it makes it pointless to build the moon to the size of Mars when you
already have a Mars-sized body, namely Mars. 
 
> > I don't see why it is necessary to limit things to Terran technology.
> 
> "That was before they got it irrigated" as old Rudesind says.     The word
> "irrigated" was what made me think of dumping volatiles on the surface -
> giant comets from the Oort and so forth.    "Irrigated" does not sound like
> transcendent Hierodule tech.   It sounds like a lot of ice being dumped on
> the Moon.
 
Rudesind and others of his society can't be expected to be cognizant of
what else besides mere irrigation would be required to cover the moon
with forest. After whatever other modifications it would take to keep an
atmosphere in place, yes it would have to be irrigated. And while it
does not sound like something of ineffable, recall that Father Inire's
Gardens allow a confluence of Gyoll and the Lake of Birds; for all we
know he diverted a tributary of the Brook Madregot to water Green/Lune.

In addition, this sort of sweeping up and piling of asteroids would
relieve the metal scarcity problem supposedly caused by all the ships
and ordnance leaving Urth, never or seldom to return. 

> > Father Inire's gardens
> > the various magic mirrors
> > The Ship
> > The Atrium of Time
> > Master Ash's house
> > Hildegrin's wrestling match
> > Severian discovering his own ancient tomb
> > the pool in Yesod
> > Severian whispering in his own ear
> 
> But - and this is crucial - none of these works are of planetforming scale.

The Yesod planet most certainly is; it's either an artificial planet or
one so heavily modified it might as well be. It also seems to have
normal gravity despite its interior being machinery with access spaces,
rather than solid rock.

> Lune has no **spiritual** weight.
> 
> That is why the Hierdoules can not be involved in the irrigation of Lune.

I don't follow you. They seem to be involved in numerous other
unspiritual undertakings, like trafficking with Baldanders.
 
> Besides, we know that it was Typhon who wounded the sun  from his speech
> with Severian.   The conclusion is that human attempts to influence the
> solar system are behind it.   **Human** tech put the black hole in the
> center of the sun.  

perhaps, he may have had help from Dark Lords / Great Beasts / whatever. 

> To terraform Lune is small peas beside that.

So which is it? Small peas, or beyond the scope of anything I could
list? The alteration of gravity could be easy for the hierodules, and
there's already an example of an area of the Palace that has zero
gravity permanently or at least at will, and almost every appearance of
hierodules and the other ilk of Yesod features some kind of bending of
the rules of time and space. 
 

> > Heinlein's "Orphans" is set in a morally indifferent universe and its
> > wonders appeal to the authority of science to justify suspension of
> > disbelief.
> 
> Yes, and the Whorl is a metatextual reference to it as well as to the
> countless O'Neill's that have graced SF.   It is a ship built by Men and
> does not fly through Time or past the walls of the Universe.

Have you not read _Planet Of The Apes_ or seen the original film? 
The Whorl doesn't need any special qualities to travel through a warp in
space and time any more than anyone visiting the Botanical Gardens do.
If the servants of the Increate put it there, it's there for the Whorl
to go through, with no more trouble than the old man's raft had reaching
the location just right for Severian to fall in and find Dorcas. 

-- 
Jeff Wilson
How Am I Posting? 1-800-555-6789
"If your SecOp can see you, so can the enemy." -Cpt Law


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