From: "Andrew Bollen" 
Subject: (urth) Blues vs Greens
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 16:52:39 +0800

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After a few failed attempts to subscribe - Ha! Mainframe at last! Now to =
integrate ...

Blue and Green whorls had me thinking of Blue & Green factions in the =
Roman & Byzantine worlds. Originally the colors of different chariot =
racing teams in the circus, and by extension their fans, the "colors" =
became established as part of the state during the Gleichshaltungen of =
the later empire & early Byzantine times. Merged with the claques of the =
theater, the fan factions had the ceremonial function of praising the =
emperor during his public appearances.=20

Over hundreds of years, throughout the empire, Blues & Greens would =
periodically erupt into factional violence against each other, causing =
widespread death & destruction. Modern analyses generally eschew =
attempts to tag class, religious or other "objective" division onto this =
rivalry. If you were a Blue, you supported the noble Blues against the =
contemptible Greens, and vice versa. Not class warfare, but soccer =
hooliganism, on a large, empire-wide scale, from the Emperor on =
downwards.
"The population in every city has for a long been divided into two =
groups, the Greens and the Blues ... The members of each faction fight =
with their opponents not knowing for what reason they risk their lives, =
but realizing full well that even when they vanquish their opponents in =
brawls, they will be carted off to prison and that, after they have =
suffered the most extreme tortures, they will be killed. ... Neither =
human nor divine affairs matter to them compared to winning these =
fights. When some impious act is committed by one of them against God, =
or when the laws and the state are injured by their comrades or =
opponents, or perhaps when they lack the necessities of life, or their =
country is suffering dire need, they ignore all this as long as events =
turn out well for their own "faction." For this is what they call the =
bands of rioters. ... And this is how things are among the people of =
every city." (Procopius)

Blues vs Greens to me are emblematic of the human tendency to fom =
divisions, for the sake of forming divisions. One of the themes of =
TBOTLS and TBOTSS is, I think, the problem of achieving good governance =
in the face of this tendency. The inhumi are an externalization and a =
mirror of divisiveness, which makes them stronger & will lead to the =
extinction of humans on the whorls, unless a solution is found.

No idea whether Wolfe intended this kind of imagery or parallel, but =
it's nice to think about. Taking it a little further, apart from Blues =
and Greens, all through this period the chariot teams included Red and =
White. In a way which does not seem all together clear, White was a =
junior partner to Blue, and Red to Green. In the extension beyond teams =
to fan factions, Red and White therefore did not make an appearance as =
separate divisions.=20

But it's perhaps possible to see a reflection in Wolfe - White is the =
color of the Long Sun Whorl (it is described as "white" when viewd from =
Blue at some point), and Red is of course Urth. The pairing of =
Green/Urth and Whorl/Blue make some kind of sense to me: each of the =
former pair in desperate straits, each of the latter just needing some =
hard work to set right.

Finally: did Wolfe have a story years ago about an Army experiment gone =
wrong - a group of men isolated for a long period, splitting into two =
parties (Blue & Green?) and fighing each othee to the death?=20

- AB


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After a few failed attempts to =
subscribe - Ha!=20
Mainframe at last! Now to integrate ...
 
Blue and Green whorls had me thinking =
of Blue &=20
Green factions in the Roman & Byzantine worlds. Originally the =
colors of=20
different chariot racing teams in the circus, and by extension their =
fans, the=20
"colors" became established as part of the state during the =
Gleichshaltungen of=20
the later empire & early Byzantine times. Merged with the claques of =
the=20
theater, the fan factions had the ceremonial function of praising =
the=20
emperor during his public appearances. 
 
Over hundreds of years, throughout the =
empire,=20
Blues & Greens would periodically erupt into factional violence =
against each=20
other, causing widespread death & destruction. Modern analyses=20
generally eschew attempts to tag class, religious or other =
"objective"=20
division onto this rivalry. If you =
were a Blue,=20
you supported the noble Blues against the contemptible Greens, and vice =
versa.=20
Not class warfare, but soccer hooliganism, on a large, empire-wide =
scale,=20
from the Emperor on downwards.

"The population in every city has for a long been divided into two =
groups,=20
the Greens and the Blues ... The members of each faction fight with =
their=20
opponents not knowing for what reason they risk their lives, but =
realizing full=20
well that even when they vanquish their opponents in brawls, they will =
be carted=20
off to prison and that, after they have suffered the most extreme =
tortures, they=20
will be killed. ... Neither human nor divine affairs matter to them =

compared to winning these fights. When some impious act is =
committed by one=20
of them against God, or when the laws and the state are injured by their =

comrades or opponents, or perhaps when they lack the necessities of =
life, or=20
their country is suffering dire need, they ignore all this as long as =
events=20
turn out well for their own "faction." For this is what they call the =
bands of=20
rioters. ... And this is how things are among the people of every =
city."=20
(Procopius)
Blues vs Greens to me are emblematic of =
the human=20
tendency to fom divisions, for the sake of forming divisions. One of=20
the themes of TBOTLS and TBOTSS is, I think, the problem of =
achieving good=20
governance in the face of this tendency. The inhumi are an =
externalization and a=20
mirror of divisiveness, which makes them stronger & will lead to=20
the extinction of humans on the whorls, unless a solution is=20
found.
 
No idea whether Wolfe intended this =
kind of imagery=20
or parallel, but it's nice to think about. Taking it a little further, =
apart=20
from Blues and Greens, all through this period the chariot teams =
included Red=20
and White. In a way which does not seem all together clear, White was a =
junior=20
partner to Blue, and Red to Green. In the extension beyond teams to fan=20
factions, Red and White therefore did not make an appearance as separate =

divisions. 
 
But it's perhaps possible to see a =
reflection in=20
Wolfe - White is the color of the Long Sun Whorl (it is described as =
"white"=20
when viewd from Blue at some point), and Red is of course Urth. The =
pairing of=20
Green/Urth and Whorl/Blue make some kind of sense to me: each of the=20
former pair in desperate straits, each of the latter just needing =
some hard=20
work to set right.
 
Finally: did Wolfe have a story years =
ago about an=20
Army experiment gone wrong - a group of men isolated for a long period,=20
splitting into two parties (Blue & Green?) and fighing each =
othee to=20
the death? 
 
- AB

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