From: "Alice K. Turner" 
Subject: Re: (urth) Thoughts on Undines, and other ramblings
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 21:36:53 -0400


From: "Robert Borski"  The landbound Blattid arguing:
>
> "The undines, as near as can be told, _are_ homo sapiens -- they are more
> advanced cases of the process to which Baldanders has been subjecting
> himself."
>
> Not sure I agree with this.

Definitely don't agree with this--i.e. agree with RB.

> For starters the names "Juturna" and "Idas" derive from classical
mythology,
> and if we adhere to Wolfe's rule of names--a rule I believe to be
> inviolable--such beings are aliens. Contrast this with "Baldanders," which
> comes to us from Borges via Grimelshausen--quite another kettle of fish in
> my opinion.

Quite correct, and see my earlier comments on undines and Rhinemaidens.

> There's also evidence that they experience time in a direction opposite to
> ours. In URTH at least, when Severian asks Juturna if she remembers saving
> him as a boy, she responds, "No. It hasn't yet happened. It will, because
> you spoke."

That's because, as a mythological creature, she has access to Brook
Madrigot/corridors of  time-traveling, not because she is living backward,
as the hierodules do.

> Idas, I've also argued before, may well be the daughter of Baldanders.
> Severian's first guess is that she's ten years old, which would make her
the
> right age if Baldanders mated with Juturna after the Piteous Gate
incident.
> (This would also help explain why Baldanders can breathe
> underwater--Severian is offered the same gift for mating with Juturna.
"You
> will breathe--by our gift--as easily as you breathe the thin, weak wind
> here.") Idas also proudly admits to burning the letter from Malrubius
> proclaiming Severian to be the true Autarch of Urth--something which may
> have especially grated upon her father, since he too was once in the
running
> for the New Sun candidacy. And lastly, Idas is a nested name--save for one
> letter, being derivable from Baldanders--a pattern Wolfe uses over and
over
> and over in BotNS to confer relatedness.

I think this is nonsense, or, more politely, highly speculative. And Idas is
not a nested name. His twin was Lynceas. All Idas means is " from or of Mt.
Ida" (in Africa) which doesn't explain much. Ida as a female name is from a
different tradition.

> Also argued here, but never accepted, is the notion that Blue's Mother is
an
> underwater godling meant to host the eventually downloaded Scylla--just as
> the other godlings were designed to host Pas, Echidna, and various sprats
> once planetfall had been achieved.

O heavens, what conceivable evidence is there for this?!!

-alga



--