From: "James Wynn"
Subject: FW: (urth) FW: Elucidations of the Long Sun:Hyacinth Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 13:22:26 -0500 Jerry Friedman says: By far the best clue I see that Hyacinth *could* be a chem is her name, as you pointed out. But I see nothing to contradict the obvious interpretation that she's a bio. I respond: Ah! But then you immediately identify a very BIG one -- see below. Of course, names could be coincidences (you mention Chenille's), but if someone can show that Villus is a little girl pretending to be a little boy, I'll collect my trophy immediately. Also, I have vociferously asserted that Incus (a man's name) is a woman - and if I'm wrong about that I should shut down my site. Hyacinth's name is a flag, but only one among many. ------------------------------------------- Jerry Friedman says: Speaking of Chenille and names, this seems like a good time to restate my theory that Chenille, who has an ambiguous name, could be a chromosomal male with testicular feminization syndrome (perhaps Tussah's failed attempt at a male heir?). I respond: I agree it's ambiguous, I've yet to formulate a theory as to why. All I know for sure is that she's not the biological heir of Tussah (because he's not human). This brings up a relevant point though because Auk is the lover of Chenille. Auk, as I will explain in a planned essay, is the "awk end" of Silk. While Silk is Hesphaestus the lame Smith god (whom Graves identifies as originally a Sun god, "he who shines by day"), the Sun ascending, the supplicant of Thetis-Kypris..., Auk on the other hand is Hesphaestus, the Sun gone down into the Underworld, in the cave in service to Thetis, with his hammer (Hamerstone) and anvil (which is the meaning of 'Incus'). They share duty as Aristaeus and as Briarius. Auk leads his followers to Green (Hell, if the SHORT SUN goes as I expect) and Silk leads them to Blue. So if Silk is to Hyacinth as Auk is to Chenille... Something to think about. ----------------------------------------- I Said: I consider her over-powering the pilot to be evidence that she is chem - not male. Jerry Friedman says: Why is that inconsistent with her being a healthy young human woman who has experience at fighting? She takes the pilot by surprise, ramming her thumbs into her (the pilot's) eyes and kicking her knees until she falls down. Seems quite reasonable to me. Silk thinks Hyacinth blinded the pilot, but Chenille (I think) disagrees. This is evidence that Hyacinth is *not* a chem--someone with superhuman strength could (I imagine) obviously blind a person this way by breaking her eyeballs, and probably obviously cripple her knees as well. My Response Knowing how to handle yourself in a brothel cat-fight is not like taking on a trained soldier -- particularly for a very petite young woman as Hyacinth is. Silk caught Chenille and Hyacinth in a lie in the very exchange to which you're referring, so she's really not credible. Actually, that conversation suggested both that Hyacinth is hiding something and that Chenille is an accomplice in it. Anyway, Silk has another take on it. Here's a subject-to-subject run-down of Silk's conversation with Horn after he asks why Silk tried to kill himself -- after Horn says, "Won't you please tell me what's wrong? Please, Calde?" 1. Silk says the Plan of Pas has gone awry and cites the plight of the chems as an example. There aren't enough female chems. 2. Horn alludes to his suspicions regarding Silk's true heritage, to which Silk finally answers, "There are so many lies in the whorl...May I instance you one more? Hyacinth subdued our pilot, Hyacinth alone." How is that a lie if the fight went the way you describe it? If it went like Marble's fight with Musk (as I infer) then there really is something else going on. 3. Silk compares Hyacinth over-powering the pilot to the idea of Incus over-powering Auk. This is an interesting analogy because Incus has just acquitted (him)self quite well in battle. Everyone has seen Incus "bewitch" the Trivigaunte's weapons. The only reason it DOES apply is that Incus is a woman in disguise. 4. Horn compares Hyacinth with the female lynx, Lion (male name), acting kittenish for Mucor's approval. Here is a second character in disguise - this one in two ways. 5. Horn says that Hyacinth and Hammerstone have a rather unique relationship. They behave as equals. He does NOT say Chenille also shares this relationship with "Stoney" even though she is also a tough prostitute with an actual history with him as comrades-in-arms. This may be a false memory but one of the things on my list to look for in a re-reading is the reference to Hammerstone's impressive chin (I think it's while he's in the tunnels with Auk and Chenille. Of course Chenille goes on about Hyacinth's chin (conversation on the airship). 6. Silk talks about his wedding night - that it was "wonderful" yet there was a "taint" to it that did not come from either of them. 7. Silk says that the Outsider created the gods and that evil serves the Outsider because it draws us to him. 8. Then Horn asks again why Silk tried to kill himself, and Silk says, "It's obvious, isn't it?" Well maybe it isn't so obvious, but I think I get the gist of it. I recommend you re-read this conversation and between Silk and Horn after they return to the airship. See if my reading doesn't fit. Silk IMO is saying the following: "This whorl is a humongous turd-shaped cluster-f, a "shag-up" as Hammerstone called it, an unresolveable knot from the sphincter of Escher. It is so screwed-up, so far beyond correction or reform, that even love is tainted. The love Hyacinth and I share (the first thing that either of us have done that we now rightly consider worthwhile) is a screw-up arrangement from the very start. "Because female chems are so rare, it is unlikely any particular male chem will ever find love. So the one I love has taken perhaps the only opportunity to escape the loveless life of a chem. I myself am an "artificial" thing, a thing made by Pas -- constructed from flesh rather than metal. So is the whorl we live in. I myself have just left a long love-affair with the Nine whom I now know to be artificial constructions at best, demons at worst. There is no resolution, there is no fix, no going back to a time when things were right and starting over (because no such time existed). The Outsider doesn't want to *fix* this whorl. He wants save us right out of it -- not to Blue or Green either, that's just a picture of what He wants to do. I wanted to force that by killing myself and escaping to Him, but that's just one more screwed-up plan of a creature of this whorl." ----------------------------------------------- I said: The most straight-forward clues that Hyacinth is male are the following: 1. Hyacinth's statement: "You know what I look like without all this [make-up and clothes]?...Like a boy, only with tits down to my waist." Jerry Friedman says: She doesn't mean she has a penis....I don't think this comment is particularly amazing for a slender young woman who has had a breast enhancement and tends to speak of her appearance deprecatingly. Incidentally, it brings up what I think is one of the stronger criticisms of your theory: would Silk really have sex with someone he knew was a chem, and if not, could he really be fooled? I respond: Chems don't have penis. Obviously she has made modifications in order to carry out her rouse. I don't think Silk knew that she was a chem until the wedding night, and then only after he was enlightened for the second time. I think Oosik knew she was a chem, that's why he went out of his way to remind Silk how lucky he was. Chenille did the same thing. Those that knew she was a chem didn't care, perhaps it made her more appealing as a whore. Using someone as a prostitute is an act that in itself "objectifies" the person -- using them as a "thing." It WAS a problem for Silk. Consider his reaction after she takes out the pilot, consider that he does not have sex with her after their wedding night (at least up until his conversation with Horn on the airship). But he loved her. There is no evidence that sex with a chem (for a laymen) is a sin in his religion -- still, it bothered him. It struck him as unnatural, "awk", and screwed-up BUT when he considered it, it was not Hyacinth but Pas' Plan that was screwed up and the whole whorl he created. And after all, Silk himself is no thing of "nature," nor is the whorl they live in. The fact that everything was so screwed up that even good acts have an awk element in them is why Silk tried to kill himself. ---Consider Silk's "meritorious deed" of trying to save his falling apart mantaeon from destruction - he realizes later that "saving" it will mean razing it and rebuilding it from scratch - then he realizes that "saving" it means leaving the structures behind and getting its PEOPLE out of the whorl --- He finally chooses, rather than reform the evil in the whorl, or to reject everything in which he finds evil (like Horn for instance) to depend on the Outsider's rescue. --Crush --