Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:55:52 -0600
From: "Charles Reed" 
Subject: Re: (urth) urth inhumation and unwanted change


Jerry Friedman wrote:

>As I recall from previous discussions, the problem with this
>suggestion is that we sometimes see Green at "full", on the opposite
>side of Blue from the Short Sun.  Maybe the most obvious example is
>at the very end on _Long Sun_.  If I remember correctly, Green rises
>as the sun sets.  I could never find any way to get the celestial
>mechanics to work out, and I suspect that Wolfe just did what he felt
>like.  Though who knows?  There could be some exotic coupled orbits
>that make everything work. 
>...
>


Well, this is the second time in the span of a couple of hours that I'm 
forced to admit to a mistake in celestial mechanics.  Actually, I had 
forgotten about Green being "full" which does, of course, mean that Blue 
is between Green and the sun.  Nice catch, and thanks for correcting me.

Even in this case, though, it's still possible for Green to not be a 
satellite of Blue.  Green could simply have an orbit that takes it 
outside of Blue's orbit, and be of such an eccentricity that the 
"outside" part results in a conjunction every six years.  But it seems 
like in this situation, a collision would be bound to occur eventually.

But there I go talking about celestial mechanics again.  I guess I 
should just shut up about that subject, before I have to eat my words 
again, huh?  :-)


>>But recall that the Green of the SS books and the Lune of the NS books 
>>exist concurrently.  CONCURRENTLY.  That is, at the _same_time_ Green is
>>
>>approaching and receding from Blue, Lune is making its regular, steady, 
>>non-varying orbit around Urth.
>>
>>So how can Green possibly be Lune?  It can't.
>>
>>So how can Blue possibly be Urth/Ushas?  It can't.
>>
>
>(Lots, maybe all, of the people who think Blue/Green is Urth/Lune
>believe that Silkhorn's dreams transport him in time as well as space.)
>

OK, if you stipulate that astral projection is also time travel, then 
I'll concede that the possibility remains open.  But  why would time 
travel occur only when projecting to Urth?  There are projections to 
three different planets that I'm aware of:  

1)  In the pit, Horn projects back home to Lizard.  This is somewhat 
speculative since this whole scene might be a hallucination, but I think 
it much more probable that it's projection, albeit projection without 
Horn being aware of what is happening.  If it is projection, then 
there's no indication of a time-shift.

2)  Several projections to Green, all of which have no indication of a 
time-shift that I can recall.

3)  Several projections to the Urth of Severian's time -- about 40 to 50 
years before the arrival of the New Sun and the birth of Ushas.  If 
there's a time-shift going on here, it's always the exact same time shift.  

Charles


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