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From: "Jeff Veyera" 
Subject: RE: (urth) Merry Christmas ... let's remove the silence
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 16:02:11 -0800


Thanks for removing the veil so we can discuss this.  I look forward to the
posts to follow.

:When asked "Does the narrator travel through the white fountain in the
sun to the past, allowing Blue to be Urth?", Gene replied

"No, no, NO!  Green is Urth."

Which creates even more problems than my theories, eh?:

Well, THAT should send people scurrying back to the text.  Wonder what Roy
thinks of author's intent on that one? :)

It does present some problems, though:

1.  The city many of us took to be Nessus underneath the waves noted by
Seawrack can't be if Blue is Lune.

2.  Where'd all the water come from?  In BotNS, the moon is described as
green (it's been terraformed) but no oceans are in evidence upon it.  I
certainly find it easier to think of Lune as becoming a huge jungle than it
becoming a water planet.

3.  Where'd all the water go on Ushas?

:But here is some evidence:

This occurs before the first trip to the red sun Whorl. Notice that the
narrator thinks of green and his son, but the song is being played, and a
witch appears in the fire, seen by Rigolio or Terzo.
(End of Chapter 20, start of 21 in IGJ)
While listening to the song (remember that the song of the mother is "a song
of time":
"I tried to recall Green's jungles and Sinew. Sleep rushed upon me, sending
spinning through an endless night."
The next page: "I want very much to describe the red sun whorl in such a way
that you can see it. ... Have I made you see Green's jungles? The swamps and
their dire inhabitants? The immense trees and the lianas clinging to them
brides? Or the City of the Inhumi, a grove of disintegrating towers like a
noble face rotting in the grave?" .... and further on:
"There is a city somewhat like this on Green, but we are not on Green; these
houses would be the towers of the Neighbor lords there." ... "I've been
thinking about it, and about the City of the Inhumi on Green. Those were
left by the Neighbors' ancient race; these were left by ours, I believe --
are as ancient as they, or nearly."

[of course the vanished people are as ancient as us - they ARE us]

It just keeps comparing the city of the inhumi to the necropolis of nessus
and that man with the stiff bird-like gait in a colorless cloak on top of a
tower on green smacks of Severian on top of the Matachin tower, doesn't it?
And there is the round little window and the fact that green is warmer than
blue.  Also, the text states that the inhumu can't breed on blue because
something is missing from the water.

The end of Chapter 21 talks about the narrators motivation in taking them
there, too - to see how their civilization could be corrupted if they aren't

This is certainly food for thought, anyway.

:How could anyone sit on this quietly?  Only Mr. Wolfe, and I AM for all
intents a child when it comes to this discussion - basking in glee.  Is it a
joke?  I suspect Wolfe wants the solution cloaked in mystery - but I believe
him.  I've already proposed several mechanisms, and Nigel Price has come up
with an interesting further interpretation of the star system that is
fascinating and may explain the theme of the doubled limbs.  I release you
to post about it.  I'm sorry I kept it to myself at all - I thought I was
respecting Gene's wishes - but he never told me not to tell anybody.  Please
forgive me.  No hard feelings!  Merry Christmas.:

Personally, I think some folks on this list can be pretty harsh in
criticizing others---it's probably why longtime lurkers like myself rarely
contribute.  As a New Year's resolution, I think we can all be a bit more
patient and respectful of others' interpretations and theories.  Even if we
don't agree with them, it adds flavor to the hearty stew that is the Urth


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