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From: "James Wynn" 
Subject: Re: (urth) jolenta rape?
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 17:12:36 -0500

Marc said:
I must speak about the Jolenta "rape" - becuase I don't think it really is
one.  She went on the boat with him, teasing and playing and falling asleep.
She's just being coy.  I will gladly call Seawrack and Io rapes, and the
girl in Book of the Short Sun (Mora?).  But Jolenta ... she wanted it bad
from everybody on Urth.  Dorcas, Talos, Baldanders, Hethor, the Cummean, the
scarred boy in the hut, the bull Severian gets her to ride on, everybody
except poor stupid Jonas.

Crush responds:
Well "she wanted me to do it" was Severian's argument. She was far enough
out of it that she didn't wake up. That would qualify as "date rape". Your
argument would bring into question whether it is possible to rape a
promiscuous woman.

I'm comfortable (so to speak) identifying this event as a Wolfean rape


> Who falls asleep on a boat with Severian?  Come on.  In any case, I was
> to say that from the first time that I read that scene in like the fifth
> grade, it invoked the worst mental image ever.  Everytime I think of the
> "unhatched chick" or "newborn chick" my eyes tear up.  It's awful.  That
> scarred me for life.  I have no idea how a female's genitals can be called
> that.  Its the weirdest simile ever.  I have nightmares about it.  Anybody
> else similarly affected by it? These are the kind of odd things that
> completely ruin your curiousity about sex growing up.  Chicken breaking
out of
> egg and gobbling up worms from mother's mouth- how revolting!
> I can safely say that Jolenta is the one character in Wolfe I absolutely
>  None of the other women came even close to deserving their fate - she
> have been Mistress Slops.
> Onward to the abnormal psychology induced from strange sex scenes - thank
> goodness I never read Heinlein as a child.  Spung?!  L. Ron Hubbard was
> than bad enough for my whole life.
> Marc Aramini
> --


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