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From: "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes" 
Subject: Re: (urth) source of charge in Jolenta rape
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 16:47:14 -0700

>I agree that it's Severian himself who makes the charge, though I think he 
>makes it against himself fairly immediately.

It's also (imho) telling that he says -- using Wolfean bigwords --
that Jolenta, who brought out lesbian tendencies ('tribidism') in
many women, brought out sadistic tendencies ('algophilia') in the

>I believe, however, that at some point Severian lets slip a statement, no 
>longer than a sentence or two, that implies that (despite the fact that 
>they were lovers at some point) he had forced Thecla. I'm not confident of 
>that as an assertion, but there was definitely violence involved; Severian 
>through most of those books is very evasive w.r.t. Thecla, and one is often 
>forced to re-evaluate things he's said earlier in light of things he says 

In fact I think it's not at all certain whether or not Severian
and Thecla were ever lovers in the flesh ... Very probable, but
there remains the possibility that the "memories" of their sexual
encounters (which only appear in the text _after_ the perverted
Eucharist in the wood) may be of Thecla's imaginings rather than
specific reality. The whole question must be considered alongside
Master Gurloes' claim that to be "abused" by the torturer is the
most shameful thing that can happen to a client ... which is
relevant to this question no matter whether it actually happened
or not.


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