Subject: (urth) Arete questions
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:21:48 +1000
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1. WTF is it all about??? (joke)
2. The chariot race
I still can't get my head around:
- Is the outcome as Diana wanted it to be, or not? Did she want =
Pausanias to win or lose?=20
- Was her purpose to destroy Pausanias, or to buttress him?
In Ch 6 Artemis says to Latro and Hegesistratus: "My queen must win in =
order that the prince may be destroyed - and thus this queen must not =
win." On the easiest reading, "the prince" =3D Pausanias, "my queen" =3D =
Gorgo and "this queen" =3D queen of the Amazons. So she seems to be =
saying that she wants to destroy Pausanias, presumably via raising him =
too high and inflaming him with hubris etc, in much the same way the =
Spartans plot to destroy Themistocles..
Her reason for wanting him destroyed is presumably bound up with her =
quarrel with Gaia, who has nominated P. her champion in response to the =
pleas of the helots.
In the end, Hegisistratus certainly believes he has failed to deliver on =
his promise to Artemis; his attempts to fix the race so Latro would win =
have failed, and now the goddess will come for him.
But historically, Pausanias gets destroyed anyway. He goes off to take =
Byzantium (as foreshadowed in Pindar's afterword), makes an ass of =
himself, apparently engages in some heavy-duty medizing, is recalled to =
Sparta, successfully defends himself for a while, but then accusations =
of radicalising the helots surface and eventually he has to flees to a =
temple of Athena in Sparta where he is walled up & starved to death, his =
mother laying the first brick.=20
And it seems that Artemis is not displeased with Latro in the end. He =
has found at least some of his old friends, the Phoenicians, as she =
promised would be his reward for winning; and as far as we know they =
will carry him back to Latium where he will find others. She is said to =
have sailed off with them, surely a sign of favor? And why did Pausanias =
let Latro go, as Pindar implies: because he thinks he can recover the =
ship & his treasure later? Or because Diana tells him to?=20
Finally, how exactly would Pausanias winning lead to his destruction? =
Maybe it wouldn't lead to Themistocles' fate, but rather to an outcome =
where P. now untouchably prestigious & powerful takes the lead of a =
Spartan-led Hellenic league preeempting Athenian ambitions, perhaps =
restores the ancient Spartan monarchy under Persian protection & does =
stuff with the helots in line with Gaia's wishes. Presumably this isn't =
an outcome Artemis would want - but isn't it plausible?
Aaaaaarrrrrggggghhhhhh.
Maybe a resolution of this is to say that Pausanias, despite losing, has =
won great prestige nevertheless, and Latro's actions have delivered =
Diana's desired destruction-road-via-hubris outcome, even if not as she =
had planned. Pindar: " The Spartan regent is cried up for his sagacity =
everywhere ... Pausanias is accounted twice a hero among the =
strategem-loving Greeks." So she rewards Latro anyway?
3. The position of Gaia.
At the begiining of Mist, she is Latro's implacable enemy who has no =
wish ever to see him again. By the end of Arete, she is almost his =
patron - thinking of his encounters with her as Cybele and as Sphingx, =
and her "loaning" of servants such as Polos, Aglaus etc.=20
What gives? Why the apparent reconciliation? (It reminds me quite a lot =
of the reconciliation I see Silk as mediating with the female powers of =
the ocean in Short Sun, and is equally mysterious.)
In fact, by the end of Arete Latro seems to have achieved the =
seemingly-impossible feat of gaining the favor of *both* Artemis and =
Gaia.
Are we to understand some deep identity between them, despite the =
surface conflict? A hint of this maybe with the victorious chariot: it =
is Cybele's own, but it is made of silver, Artemis' metal (as Pindar =
points out). Hmmmmmm.
Another thing: what's Gaia's position in the chariot race? Presumably it =
should be the opposite to Artemis' - she would want an outcome which =
buttresses Pausanias, given that she is trying to make him king. (She =
knows she might fail in this.) She definitely has some interest in the =
race; she sizes up Latro for the silver chariot, before halping him =
capture the horses of the sun. Why? Why size him up for the silver =
chariot, which he will not be racing? Does she want him to win, or the =
Amazon queen?
Again: Aaaaaaaarrrrrggggggghhhhhh.
4. Aphrodite
In Mist, when they have their little encounter in Kalleos' garden, she =
hynotizes Latro. To do or think or believe what - do we ever find out? =
Why does she not appear again? Is she the goddess who waves to Latro =
from the ethereal upper stands of the stadium when he wins his =
pankration event?
5. Latro's Loyalty to the Great King
Consistently, Latro considers himself to be soldier of the great King, =
even though he obviously can't remember who Xeres is. Why? Is it just =
that his noble Roman nature retains the moral impetus of an oath he once =
took, or is there something else going on? Could this be Aphrodite's =
subliminal command - but why should it be?
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1. WTF is it all about??? =
(joke)
2. The chariot race
I still can't get my head =
around:
- Is the outcome as Diana wanted it to =
be, or not?=20
Did she want Pausanias to win or lose?
- Was her purpose to destroy Pausanias, =
or to=20
buttress him?
In Ch 6 Artemis says to Latro and=20
Hegesistratus: "My queen must win in order that the prince may be =
destroyed -=20
and thus this queen must not win." On the easiest reading, "the prince" =
=3D=20
Pausanias, "my queen" =3D Gorgo and "this queen" =3D queen of the =
Amazons. So she=20
seems to be saying that she wants to destroy Pausanias, presumably via =
raising=20
him too high and inflaming him with hubris etc, in much the same way the =
Spartans plot to destroy Themistocles..
Her reason for wanting him destroyed is =
presumably=20
bound up with her quarrel with Gaia, who has nominated P. her champion =
in=20
response to the pleas of the helots.
In the end, Hegisistratus certainly =
believes he has=20
failed to deliver on his promise to Artemis; his attempts to fix the =
race so=20
Latro would win have failed, and now the goddess will come for =
him.
But historically, Pausanias gets =
destroyed anyway.=20
He goes off to take Byzantium (as foreshadowed in Pindar's afterword), =
makes an=20
ass of himself, apparently engages in some heavy-duty medizing, is =
recalled to=20
Sparta, successfully defends himself for a while, but then accusations =
of=20
radicalising the helots surface and eventually he has to flees to a =
temple of=20
Athena in Sparta where he is walled up & starved to death, his =
mother laying=20
the first brick.
And it seems that Artemis is not =
displeased=20
with Latro in the end. He has found at least some of his old friends, =
the=20
Phoenicians, as she promised would be his reward for winning; and as far =
as we=20
know they will carry him back to Latium where he will find others. She =
is said=20
to have sailed off with them, surely a sign of favor? And why did =
Pausanias let=20
Latro go, as Pindar implies: because he thinks he can recover the ship =
& his=20
treasure later? Or because Diana tells him to?
Finally, how exactly would Pausanias =
winning lead=20
to his destruction? Maybe it wouldn't lead to Themistocles' fate, but =
rather to=20
an outcome where P. now untouchably prestigious & =
powerful takes=20
the lead of a Spartan-led Hellenic league preeempting Athenian =
ambitions,=20
perhaps restores the ancient Spartan monarchy under Persian protection =
&=20
does stuff with the helots in line with Gaia's wishes. Presumably this =
isn't an=20
outcome Artemis would want - but isn't it plausible?
Aaaaaarrrrrggggghhhhhh.
Maybe a resolution of this is to =
say that=20
Pausanias, despite losing, has won great prestige nevertheless, and =
Latro's=20
actions have delivered Diana's desired destruction-road-via-hubris =
outcome, even=20
if not as she had planned. Pindar: " The Spartan regent is cried up for =
his=20
sagacity everywhere ... Pausanias is accounted twice a hero among the=20
strategem-loving Greeks." So she rewards Latro =
anyway?
3. The position of Gaia.
At the begiining of Mist, she is =
Latro's implacable=20
enemy who has no wish ever to see him again. By the end of Arete, she is =
almost=20
his patron - thinking of his encounters with her as Cybele and as =
Sphingx, and=20
her "loaning" of servants such as Polos, Aglaus etc.
What gives? Why the apparent =
reconciliation? (It=20
reminds me quite a lot of the reconciliation I see Silk as mediating =
with the=20
female powers of the ocean in Short Sun, and is equally=20
mysterious.)
In fact, by the end of Arete Latro =
seems to have=20
achieved the seemingly-impossible feat of gaining the favor of =
*both*=20
Artemis and Gaia.
Are we to understand some deep identity =
between=20
them, despite the surface conflict? A hint of this maybe with the =
victorious=20
chariot: it is Cybele's own, but it is made of silver, Artemis' metal =
(as Pindar=20
points out). Hmmmmmm.
Another thing: what's Gaia's position =
in the=20
chariot race? Presumably it should be the opposite to Artemis' - she =
would want=20
an outcome which buttresses Pausanias, given that she is trying to make =
him=20
king. (She knows she might fail in this.) She definitely has some =
interest in=20
the race; she sizes up Latro for the silver chariot, before halping him =
capture=20
the horses of the sun. Why? Why size him up for the silver chariot, =
which he=20
will not be racing? Does she want him to win, or the Amazon =
queen?
Again: =
Aaaaaaaarrrrrggggggghhhhhh.
4. Aphrodite
In Mist, when they have their little =
encounter in=20
Kalleos' garden, she hynotizes Latro. To do or think or believe what - =
do we=20
ever find out? Why does she not appear again? Is she the goddess who =
waves to=20
Latro from the ethereal upper stands of the stadium when he wins his =
pankration=20
event?
5. Latro's Loyalty to the Great =
King
Consistently, Latro considers himself =
to be soldier=20
of the great King, even though he obviously can't remember who Xeres is. =
Why? Is=20
it just that his noble Roman nature retains the moral impetus of an =
oath he=20
once took, or is there something else going on? Could this be =
Aphrodite's=20
subliminal command - but why should it be?
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