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From: "Chris" 
Subject: Re: (urth) Arete questions
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:04:41 +0000

One thing that seems uncertain to me about the Pausanius speculation is the 
original reading of Diana's words, specifically what is meant by "this 
queen" and "my queen". I thought that the Amazons were a race dedicated 
specifically to Diana, and so my first reading of the passage was the 
opposite of what is being discussed here: the Amazon queen - "my queen" - 
must lose in order that "this queen" - the Spartan one - might win, to the 
benefit of the Spartans. If this is the case then Latro foiled her plan (and 
Demeter may have been somewhat appeased). I find it difficult to project the 
intended chain of consequences, however. What later came of it may have been 
the result of continuous maneuvering afterward.

To throw some of my own speculation in, while I disagree with the Latro = 
Ares idea, this last post did strike me as one that might lead to something 
interesting. What if Latro, in the heat of battle, had been "possessed" by 
Ares (not sure what the correct term is in the Greek context, but the same 
idea as what happened in the Iliad) at the time of his wound. Ares, affected 
by the memory loss, can't leave or doesn't remember who he is. This might 
also account for Latro being able to see the other gods (not that another 
explanation is needed).

I'm not sure if this kind of speculation holds together with the way the 
Greek gods "work" though, really.

Side question: I am reading Xenophon's Anabasis right now. I was interested 
in reading, as well, whatever he wrote that bears on Latro's story. Can 
anyone tell me which work that might be found in?


>Andrew Bollen brought up some very good questions.
>Here are a few SPECULATIVE answers:
>Why does Pausanius have to lose?  It all goes back to the powers at the 
>War.  The Achaens, led by Achilles, have been displaced by Pausanius' 
>Latro is the agent of Achilles revenge - he is the one who gets close to
>Pausanius to destroy the Dorian leader.  When Odysseus helps Latro, he is 
>careful to say "For the wrath of Achilles!" when he rips out a dude's 
>Latro represents a new order to replace the Doric greeks, and as such he is
>loyal to that order no matter how he serves the older paths (like the gods
>ultimately serve the will of God)
>Why does Aphrodite get involved with Latro and bring up the Golden Apple?
>The apple invokes Achilles and the Trojan War again, and I'm pretty sure 
>Latro is no ordinary mortal - he is her lover already, but the other gods 
>punished him by removing the memory of his pre-mortal divinity.
>Why does the Great Mother like Latro at the end?
>The answer to this is in the poem that Latro recites at the end of Arete: 
>Ares quits the war proud throng - Latro has learned the lesson of love and 
>aside the ways of war, and so all the goddesses love him anew, even though 
>still needs to go to his mortal home to realize how far removed he is from 
>divinity, before he can reclaim it.
>I'm not saying that Latro isn't mortal - I'm saying he is a
>proto-theoanthropos who bridges the gap between mortal and god, and can't
>remember because he must know what it is to be truly human, without memory 
>divine arrogance, to change enough to bring about the Pax Roman which will
>hasten in the age of Christ - when the world is at peace.  War must cease 
>Christ to come into the world - but it takes warriors to forge that peace.
>Latro is one of those warriors.
>Marc Aramini

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