From: "Alice Turner" <al@interport.net>
Subject: (whorl) Manteions, Kypris, Hy
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 17:49:44 


[Posted from Whorl, the mailing list for Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun]

Having done the list of theophanies and possessions (that was
me--algae--not mantis, though I think it would be nice if mantis emended
the list with that fine timeline he's cooking up), I now have a lot to
answer for, so I'll do it point by point.

Mantis, when Chenille "comes to"---when Kypris leaves her, that is---she is
sitting in a manteion staring at a screen. She thinks she's still in Sun
St. and is confused to find out, when she exits, that she's in Limna.
Stands to reason Limna has a manteion--we don't have to see it.
 
> But wait: Kypris (forgive the misspelling of Cyprus before!) cares
> about graffiti?!  She reads it?  Where, when?  Inquiring minds want
> to know!  <g>

By the time Kypris calls Silk in after the exorcism, buzz about him is all
over Viron. Why do you think she calls him? Hy? I don't think so. (As you
know, I think Hy is hired by Crane to seduce Silk---at this point he's
hardly aware of him.) If you look at the theophany list you'll see that
Kypris becomes quite political and this is where she starts.

> And later, re: ghostpike; so you are saying that Quetzal can't see in
> the dark under the nightland sky?  Fair enough . . . so when he
> disappears in Blood's much darker cellar, we should be impressed that
> he doesn't stumble?

Nah, he can see...Silk probably sleeps on his stomach. And Q wouldn't want
him to sit up suddenly to find His Cognizance bending over him to flip him
over. I'm sticking with my theory, which I've already iterated.

 And no, I don't buy your Osiris reading, except in the way of vague
reference and general mythic richness. I'm sticking with my computer
reading. But I have no doubt that Kypris and Tartaros could fix up "Pas" to
incorporate Silk, both cosmetically and neurally.

And I don't agree with your Hy reading either, though you make a good case
(actually, fellow Virons, his case is better than he's given you here---he
goes on to list some physical curiosities...go to it, mantis). Hy is one of
our favorites, and I have my own scenario for her, which I'll go into in a
separate message (not today)---mostly I think she has no morals at all.

 Dave, Kypris tells us (when she summons Silk) that she was in Hy at
Blood's that night, and that she does this from time to time (presumably
for sex) for fun but that now that Hy is 23 (too old, I guess) she'll soon
stop. (I think that the reason Hy and Chenille are so easily possessed is
that they are both addicted to rust.) And mantis can give you some
interesting speculation on Kypris-Hy, that I don't buy. My position is that
Hy is a less interesting character if she is completely controlled by
Kypris.

Hy is definitely an informer for Crane. (So is Chenille, but not so
successfully.) He tells Silk so. But I think she's for sale, body and/or
soul, to anyone with money. And I am sure that she was paid to write that
letter and throw herself at Silk. I'm 99% sure that Crane paid her, but
there's a slight possibility that it was Blood.

Why does Auk/Tartaros kidnap Hy? That's a puzzler. My feeling is that it's
to keep her from seducing Silk (he will then lose his interpretive powers)
because Tartaros needs the trusted Silk to interpret the "Pas" program he's
putting together to tell Virons to get out of the Whorl. 

I think you're right on with the mother/adoptive mother (the "beautiful"
one). Kypris had nothin' to do with it.

I also think you're right on about the motivation of the gods in killing
Pas (they didn't want the party to end). When I say that Pas is a construct
of Tartaros and Kypris (actually I don't think Kypris does any
construction), I don't mean that they couldn't put him together again.
Tartaros could but he doesn't. It's a crippled program (Pas is much too
powerful and scary to really reconstruct) with one purpose: to deliver
Tartaros's message: Get off the Whorl---don't forget that Tartaros can't do
a theophany by himself. The "piece of Pas" that Jerboa was carrying goes
right into Auk via Tartaros. Pas has nothin' to do with it.

Re appreciation: When I first began Long Sun, I couldn't get rid of the
feeling that I was reading a YA novel--this persisted through at least two
books. But, as you say, there are layers!

Oh, and like Dave and Henry, I think the Whorl has been rotating the
Blue-Green system for quite a while, maybe as much as 50 years. But I don't
see how Quetzal could have got aboard it---I think he's been there from the
git-go overlooking the Cargo to the point where he's gotten rather fond of
it. Still it's a possibility. He's only been Prolocutor for 33 years.

Talon, nice sleuthing on Horn!

-algae-



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