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From: "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes" <ddanehy@siebel.com>
Subject: RE: (whorl) Re: Digest whorl.v012.n100
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 09:21:57 

Timothy R wrote:

> IGJ iirc introduced all the astral travel nonsense, 

Modulo the idea that it was "nonsense," yes. Mr. Wolfe, who writes 
"science-fantasy" (more accurately: he writes science fiction that 
makes some different assumptions about the nature of physical 
reality than do most SF writers), is entitled to posit astral travel
if he chooses; dislike it if you choose, but to call it nonsense wrt 
Wolfe's universe-of-discourse seems rather petty.

> and also seemed to involve something of a failure of the 
> imagination concerning Green (where precious little time
> ultimately ended up being spent by the book).  

I think "precious little" is an exaggeration; between the 
(relatively few) flashbacks and the astral travel scenes, I'd 
esimate (after two readings but without counting pages) that 
between a quarter and a third of the book is spent on Green. 
As for a "failure of the imagination," well, disgustibus non 
deputandem; I found the scenes on Green some of Wolfe's most
vivid ever, and sufficiently horrifying (I'd go as far as
"gut wrenching") that I can easily sympathize with the Narr's
disinclination to reminisce over the place.

> RTTW lacked the lyricism of both OBW and (to a lesser extent)
> IGJ and for me was too full of the juvenilia of the LS series.

Juvenilia of the LS series? What on _earth_ are you talking about?
LONG is quite possibly the most mature sf series I have ever read.

> One issue Mr Lloyd raised (I think) which I do want to specifically
> second is ALL THE TYPOS.  

While I agree that this is offensive I wish to point out that this is
nothing particular to RttW; I've noticed that the proofreading of 
books in general -- with the exception of the academic presses --
has been deteriorating for the last decade or so. I suspect this of
being an artifact of overdependency on spelling checkers that won't
catch things like "hounded" because they're legitimate words even if
they make no sense in context.

> "Father" is quoted as saying of Typhon's daughter Scylla: "the
> daughter who had pledged herself in secret to one of the sea gods
> of the Short Sun Whorl that would in time become our Red Sun Whorl".  
> What is he talking about? She pledged herself as I understand to a
> god of the Red Sun Whorl, but it can't be just a simple typo as how
> does the Short Sun Whorl become in time the (indeed "our") Red Sun
> Whorl?  They are two different places after all (I think!).


Scylla is the daughter of Typhon, you've got that. The "sea god" is 
Great Scylla. GS is a sea god (or goddess) of Urth, which is the _old_ 
Short Sun Whorl that sent out the Long Sun Whorl (I'm sure you got
that much, too). 

Now, the new Short Sun Whorls, Green and Blue do not have a red sun.
So when the Narr and the twins and all travel astrally to Urth, they 
refer to it as "the Red Sun Whorl;" thus, though they do not know 
what its inhabitants call it, it is "their" Red Sun Whorl.


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