From: Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com>
Subject: (whorl) Re: Digest whorl.v012.n133
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 13:50:37 

> From: "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes" <ddanehy@siebel.com>
> Subject: RE: (whorl) Silkhorn^H^H^H^H and Severian
> Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 16:24:31 -0700
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> Jerry Friedman wrote:
> 
> > Any comments?
> 
> Oh, I suppose ... a few ...
> 
> Given the change in the Narr's astrally-projected
> "appearance," 
> I suspect that, yes, there is a change in his or
> their "soul" 
> somewhere, somehow, in between those two dates. I
> supsect it may 
> not, however, have anything directly to do with Li'l
> Severian.
> 
> Actually, I feel like Darwin dealing with Wallace: I
> haven't 
> formulated a really solid theory, yet, which is why
> I haven't 
> posted it yet, but given that Jerry is now
> concentrating on 
> the significant parts of the text (which have
> hitherto been
> mentioned in passing but not really attended to), I
> think I want 
> to stick my oar in and establish a sort of priority
> on what I 
> do have. 
> 
> The missing piece here is the deScyllification of
> Oreb. 
> 
> The connection is fairly clear at a structural
> level: 
> 
> 	(A) something happens to free a body (Oreb's) of a 
> 	    soul or astral persona
> (Scylla-the-daughter-of-Pas) 
> 	    which has possessed or partially possessed it,
> or, 
> 	    mutatis mutandis, to free that soul or astral 
> 	    persona from the body which has possessed it; 
> 
> 	(B) something happens to change the soul or astral 
> 	    persona (Horn's?) associated with a body
> (Silk's) 
> 	    which seems to be or to have been partially 
> 	    possessed. 
> 
> 
> But this isn't really developed into any kind of
> thesis or 
> theory, as you can see; all I'm saying here is "this
> pattern 
> seems to establish something of the possible
> meaning-space 
> for case (B) by putting it into relief against case
> (A)."

Nww that you mention it, I can see a parallel between
the two events, but I'm still loooking forward to your
showing any other kind of connection.

> > I promised you folks an unfounded speculation. 
> 
> It doesn't look unfounded to me, though I'm not
> readly to agree
> with the conclusions.

It's unfounded in the sense that I don't know of any
positive evidence for it.  There's just an event
without an apparent cause right next to an event
without much apparent effect.  I was hoping someone
would find more definite evidence for (or against) my
speculation.
...

>> Does Severian by his mere presence resurrect Silk? 


> I find this highly dubious for half a dozen reasons;
> the most important of which: I think Silk is neither
> more nor less dead at the end of _RttW_ than he is
> when the Narr first takes up his pen in Gaon. The
> "climax" of _RttW_ is not a resurrection but a
> recognition, and what is recognized is something
that
> the Narr has been trying very hard not to see since
> long before he began astrally travelling to Green, 
> let alone Urth. 

Well, it doesn't seem that settled to me, but let me
rephrase the question in line with Rostrum's point,
which I should have considered in the first place:
Does Severian by his mere presence contribute to
healing Silk?  What's the next-best reason to find it
dubious?

>> There's a strong objection to this speculation: the
>> transformation happens at the wrong time.  We might
have 
>> expected it at Silkhorn's first meeting with
Severian (Chap.
>> 13), or failing that, when he dreams of Severian
(Chap. 15),
>> or at their last meeting, but not in between.

> Here is one weakness your theory clearly doesn't
> have. On the many occasions when Sev commits
miracles
> without knowing it, he seems to do so in a rather
> haphazard fashion, and not necessarily at the first
> opportunity. (How many encounters does he have with
> water before suddenly turning some into wine...? And
> it isn't as if that had been for a wedding!)

True, but does he ever perform a miracle that takes
effect at some point in the next few days?

-- 
Jerry Friedman




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