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From: Ouroboros <ottofaij@yahoo.com> Subject: (urth) Re: Baptism vs. Resurrection Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 21:23:19 <<<<Nessus? I can be mistaken, but I think you mean the river Gyoll (is this the correct spelling?). This could be a Christian paralel, anyway: not with the resurrection of Christ -- wich, anyway, marks the end of Jesus's "career" on Earth --, but the Baptism by John.>>> Oops! Thanks for the correction, Carlos. However, the Baptism of John is a not a good match IMO. The bottom of the Nessus represents death. The nenuphar represents death because "under flower and leaves are black roots...reaching down in to the dark waters" at the bottom of the Gyoll (where the life-giving sun's rays do not reach). Also, Severian makes a straight-forward comparison between the necropolis with it's roses and the Gyoll with it's nenuphars. The Gyoll=grave. Now, I know the Jordan river has also been a symbol of death, but the symbol is in *crossing* the river, not sinking to the bottom of it. Later Severian will cross the Gyoll but that's the death of Balder not the baptism of Jesus. And Christian baptism does represent Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection, but that's not the kind of baptism John did and a symbol of a symbol of burial and resurection is top heavy. Finally, in orthodox theology it is at his resurrection when Jesus' *real* career began. When Christian's are baptized at their conversion or as infants it is representative of Jesus' resurrection. Of course, for Catholic children there is a 13 year period between baptism and confirmation, but now I'm chasing rabbits because that's not how Wolfe became a Christian. I suppose it's possible both things symbols are being used simultaneously, but the resurrection of Christ seems to fit better than his baptism by John. --Ouroboros __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *More Wolfe info & archive of this list at http://www.urth.net/urth/