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From: "Alice Turner" <pei047@attglobal.net> Subject: (urth) Pelagianism Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 10:20:50 We've never discussed this, have we? In CLAW, just before they dine on baked Thecla,Vodalus gives a flint-like object to Sev to give to his "agent" at the House Absolute (the autarch). The agent will identify himself with the phrase, "The pelagic argosy sights land." Later, if he should give Sev a further message, the recipient will use the phrase, "I am from the quercine penetralia," i.e. the heart of the oak--which is truer than Vodalus knows. Pelagic, as a simple adjective, means oceanic, deep-sea. But there is a Christian heresy named after Pelagius, a strong rival to Augustine of Hippo (who nailed down a great deal of Christian doctrine, including some of the most intractable). The position of Pelagius was that the doctrine of Grace, as taught by Augustine, was in opposition to the doctrine of Free Will, and ultimately was productive of moral laxity. Pelagius was condemned several times (usually by a narrow margin), but in practice, Western Christianity has wavered between his side and Augustine's ever since. The basic points were a rejection of Original Sin (Adam was merely a bad example); thus there is no need for salvation through Christ as it can be achieved by one's own efforts (Christ was merely a good example). Man, not God, is responsible for man's depravity (and Pelagius found plenty of depravity in Rome), and it is entirely possible for a man, even before Christ, to be sinless--we can choose our path. Infant baptism, one of Augustine's most controversial stands (unbaptized babies were damned, which, to some of us, seems like an extraordinarily perverse superstition) was rejected. You can check all this out at length in the online Catholic Encyclopedia. Taking the position that Wolfe does not use words, especially unusual words with a religious slant, lightly or accidentally, how does this pertain to the Vodalus position? -alga *More Wolfe info & archive of this list at http://www.urth.net/urth/