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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:04:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Jerry Friedman 
Subject: Re: (urth) urth inhumation and unwanted change

--- Charles Reed  wrote:
> Several things, including an argument for why Green is not Lune:
> maa32 wrote:
> >A lot of discussion on whether or not inhumi were hinted at on Urth -
> keep in 
> >mind that they would be on Lune in a simplistic state at that time
> period, 
> >with perhaps a few that had become humanoid due to Lune's settlers and
> the 
> >closeness of the moon to Urth.
> >
> You're assuming, of course, that Lune = Green, which I don't believe to 
> be the case.
> But even if that were the case, why would the inhumi be in a simplistic 
> state?  How much evolution is going to occur in 1000 or 2000 years?  How
> much have humans evolved over the last 2000 years?  We're certainly 
> bigger than we used to be, largely attributable to better diet and 
> better living conditions, but a human living 2000 (or 10,000) years ago 
> certainly wouldn't be physiologically "simplistic" compared to us.  
> There's another thing that's always bugged me about the Urth = Blue, 
> Lune = Green theory, and that is this:  From my reading, Green is not in
> orbit around Blue.  It's a separate planet, necessarily closer to the 
> "short sun" than Blue, due to its noticeably warmer weather.  [This is 
> speculation, of course, but I believe it to be sound.  We may infer 
> Green's warmer weather is because of its closer proximity to the sun and
> NOT some kind of Venus-like greenhouse effect because there is a 
> relatively light cloud cover on Green.  After all, Green is noticeably, 
> prominently, and dominantly green -- not largely white with spots of 
> green peeping through the clouds.]  Either Blue or Green, or perhaps 
> both Blue and Green, have noticeably eccentric orbits, which brings the 
> planets relatively close together every six years (is that right? 
>  conjunctions are six years apart?).

As I recall from previous discussions, the problem with this
suggestion is that we sometimes see Green at "full", on the opposite
side of Blue from the Short Sun.  Maybe the most obvious example is
at the very end on _Long Sun_.  If I remember correctly, Green rises
as the sun sets.  I could never find any way to get the celestial
mechanics to work out, and I suspect that Wolfe just did what he felt
like.  Though who knows?  There could be some exotic coupled orbits
that make everything work. 

> But recall that the Green of the SS books and the Lune of the NS books 
> exist concurrently.  CONCURRENTLY.  That is, at the _same_time_ Green is
> approaching and receding from Blue, Lune is making its regular, steady, 
> non-varying orbit around Urth.
> So how can Green possibly be Lune?  It can't.
> So how can Blue possibly be Urth/Ushas?  It can't.

(Lots, maybe all, of the people who think Blue/Green is Urth/Lune
believe that Silkhorn's dreams transport him in time as well as space.)

> >, let me 
> >hide the identity of the first narrator in a hus,
> >
> What that?  Who's the narrator hiding in a hus?

Well, *something* strange goes on with Horn and Babbie at the end
of OBW.  Marc believes that most (or all?) of Horn's identity moves
into Babbie at that point.  I'm not convinced--why then does the
narrator look like Horn in astral travel and Babbie not look
recognizably like Horn?  (But then, in the first astral trip to
Green, Auk appears to recognize the narrator as Silk.)

> > and let me give enough 
> >evidence that can be ALMOST explained away
> >
> I think it can all be explained away.

I'm inclined to agree.  As far as Blue=Ushas goes, I think there's
practically no evidence at all.

> > - I don't see why he would feel 
> >compelled to give us a clear glimpse of inhumu on earth at all - HE
> >
> I think Wolfe is subtle, demanding, and sometimes frustrating.  But I 
> also think he plays fair with his readers.

I suspect he tries, but I don't think he always realizes what can be
interpreted as a clue.

Jerry Friedman

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