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Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 19:23:23 -0600
From: James Jordan 
Subject: (urth) Blue-Ushas; Green-Urth -- Problems

At 05:47 PM 12/23/2002, Nigel wrote:
>Marc wrote:
> >>I've already proposed several mechanisms, and
> >>Nigel Price has come up with an interesting
> >>further interpretation of the star system that
> >>is fascinating and may explain the theme of the
> >>doubled limbs.
>I take GW's comment to Marc very seriously, and believe that it is true, at
>least at a symbollic level. Green is, in part, a satire on greedy, warring,
>self-destroying Urth/Earth. Here is part of my recent off-list
>correspondence with Marc on the subject.
> >Thought #1: GW told you that Green is Urth, but
> >that doesn't preclude the possibility that Blue is
> >Ushas.

         Yeah. I'm thinking along those lines also. But shucks, I was so 
sure that my "another banggnab" theory was right! Well, there you are.
         Anyway, let's run with this, and see where it might lead. Assuming 
that GW was not joking, and also that his note was precise: Green is URTH, 
not Ushas. If it is, then Ushas must be around somewhere, and must be Blue.
         One can see possibilities here. The city of the sewers is Nessus, 
but so is the underwater city on Blue.
         Green is analogous to the old pre-gospel world that continues 
alongside the New Creation inaugurated by Jesus. It has been suggested that 
the Neighbors are like the pre-Christian philosophers, the inhumi like 
pagan gentiles in need of redemption, and the invaders from the Whorl 
(humans) are like the Christian world. The Whorl itself (especially Viron) 
is like Judaism, and Silk is like Jesus (for his narrative tracks the 
gospels pretty well, and then moves into Acts and Revelation).
         For Wolfe, the Christian world (Blue) is a sorry mess, but not as 
sorry as mess as the world outside of Christendom, which invades 
Christendom (like the inhumi) and needs to be redeemed by Christians 
behaving as they should (like Silk).
         As a grid -- one among others -- this works okay whether 
Green/Blue are Urth/Ushas or not. Here are some agenda items/problems for 
the thesis, assuming Wolfe was not joking.
         1. I think what we need to look for is an indication of how, or an 
indication THAT, the coming of the New Sun split Urth into Old Urth and New 
Ushas, and split Severian as well (since he seems to be on Green/Urth, as 
Marc has pointed out, and we know that he was on Ushas).
         Hmmm. Severian is the New Sun in a sense, but he is also the 
Representative of Urth, being made of Urthish matter. If Severian splits, 
then possibly Urth splits also. Any hint anywhere of Severian splitting? We 
know that there are other Severians, but I'm not recalling any notion of 
         2. Time travel back to Severian's day is still a problem. Maybe 
I've missed the solution and it has been posted already. There needs to be 
a time-traveller along on the astral journey for it to be a time trip. Have 
we found such a person, on or off camera? Did Silk's "eternal moment" at 
the beginning of the narrative make him someone who could be an anchor for 
time travel?
         3. What was Typhon aiming for? He was aiming for Blue/Green; we 
know that. It makes sense to me that he might have sent the Whorl in a 
large circle to come back to Urth/Lune, where he could wake up as a 
two-headed god to be worshipped by people trained to do so by Pas. But that 
assumes Green is Lune, which we are rejecting in this hypothesis. Could 
Typhon have known not only of the future flood, but also of the future 
splitting? It seems to me that he would have to have known this, for this 
hypothesis to work.
         4. Why and HOW do both planets become planets of intelligent 
plants?  Some of Marc's old stuff might play in here, of course.
         5. What happened to the humans who lived through the coming of the 
New Son on Green-Urth and Blue-Ushas? Severian still seems to be haunting 
Green in human form. What of the rest? Did they "evolve" into Neighbors and 
maybe also inhumi? How? And, is there evidence?
         6. What is the meta-narrative underpinning? Silk is a Christ 
figure (not a Moses figure, Biblically, save as Moses is a type of Christ 
-- don't be fooled by the word "exodus," but see Luke 9:31, where what 
Jesus accomplished at Jerusalem is called his "exodus" -- something Wolfe 
surely knows, having heard this passage read annually at mass). Are we to 
think of Severian as more of a Noah figure, once we read all 12 volumes? 
Does it finally come out something like this?:
         a. An old pre-flood world, where the sons of god (interpreted as 
space beings) are marrying (interfering with) the daughters of men (human 
beings), and the world has become corrupt.
         b. A new Noah brings a flood.
         c. The world divides into higher gentiles (Neighbors) and raw 
barbarians (inhumi), while the Jews have a separate history (the Whorl) 
leading down to a savior (Silk).
         d. The new people emerge from the Whorl (Christians) and now must 
enter and deal with the twin worlds of the gentiles 
(Blue-Ushas/Green-Urth). The higher gentiles, the philosophers (Neighbors) 
yield to the new Christians (the humans).
         e. But I can see lots of objections to this, and so doubtless can 
you all.
         Anyway, just some thoughts, and just for fun.
         You see, I think it possible that Wolfe's comment was serious, but 
not literal. Jesus took bread and said, "This IS my body." Well, as 
theologians (and recently others) have argued for centuries, how you take 
this depends on what the meaning of "is" is. Green IS Urth. Sure it is. If 
you want to see what Urth was like before the New Sun, take a look at 
Green. Not Blue but Green is symbolically parallel to Urth. Maybe that's 
all Gene meant.
         But if he meant more, it's fun to try and track it down.



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