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From: "Ori Kowarsky" <orik@sprint.ca> Subject: (urth) Father Inire and the Deluge Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 00:18:11 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE8B8C.70B142A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Certain things said about the Deluge, Hierodules and the Increate have = inspired me to de-lurk and vent a bit about what I consider to be a = rather uncritical acceptance of the "religious" or "divine" ideology = propogated by, for want of a better term, the Briah elements on Urth. Unless I've forgotten or misread TBONS, which is of course emminently = possible, the Hierodules and their masters are not angels or cherubim = come down from Heaven; they are a genetically altered "master" species = sufficiently advanced to be able to travel throuh time and space to the = nth degree. Despite this great power, they are material, and I believe = fallible and wrongheaded, creatures, no different from any other = "superior" alien species in science fiction with political or strategic = interests in the Terran sphere. They have interfered with Urth's sun = for their own purposes (which possibly include hobbling the ability of = Urrth's tyrants -- or more importantly, her extra-solar "guests" -- to = wage wars of interstellar conquest) and they are now prepared to = interfere with Urth's sun and destiny once again, allowing Urth to = rejoin the family of planets now that some sort of human expiation has = been served. I think the best summation of this state of affairs -- and, IMHO a much = better encapsulation of the themes of TBOTNS than "Empires of Foliage = and Flower" -- is Melito's Story -- "The Cock, the Angel and the Eagle" = from Citadel, wherein the Angel (Briah) sends down the Eagle (the worm = in the heart of the Old Sun/the fountain in the heart of the New Sun) to = kick the ass of the Cock (humanity) in a neat bit of overkill, = apparently in response to the cock's vanity and ambition. Two very = interesting things happen at the end of the slaughter -- the Cock, = speaking perhaps of all human nature, says it wouldn't, and couldn't, = have acted any differently (or as Sev tells us, twice, "That we are only = capable of being what we are remains our unforgiveable sin") and that = the Angel has no more idea of God's will or the nature of divine justice = than any of us do ("'The Pancreator is infinitely far from us,' the = angel said. 'And thus infinitely far from me, though I fly so much = higher than you. I guess at his desires -- no one can do otherwise.'"). Whether Sev was right to do what he did -- or whether he was anything = more than a puppet in what transpired -- is open to debate. If we do = accept that somehow he was a necessary element for the gestation of the = New Sun (which I doubt) I'm guessing he made his choice for personal = reasons: The Green Man from Ushas was curious, honourable and brave. = Master Ash from Ragnarock was withdrawn, passive and aloof. I hope = that, given the death toll involved, Sev made the right decision. Ori ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE8B8C.70B142A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Certain things said about the Deluge, Hierodules and = the=20 Increate have inspired me to de-lurk and vent a bit about what I = consider to be=20 a rather uncritical acceptance of the "religious" or=20 "divine" ideology propogated by, for want of a better term, = the Briah=20 elements on Urth.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Unless I've forgotten or misread TBONS, which is of = course=20 emminently possible, the Hierodules and their masters are not angels or = cherubim=20 come down from Heaven; they are a genetically altered = "master"=20 species sufficiently advanced to be able to travel throuh time and space = to the=20 nth degree. Despite this great power, they are material, and I = believe=20 fallible and wrongheaded, creatures, no different from any other=20 "superior" alien species in science fiction with political or=20 strategic interests in the Terran sphere. They have interfered = with Urth's=20 sun for their own purposes (which possibly include hobbling the ability = of=20 Urrth's tyrants -- or more importantly, her extra-solar = "guests"=20 -- to wage wars of interstellar conquest) and they are now prepared to = interfere=20 with Urth's sun and destiny once again, allowing Urth to rejoin the = family of=20 planets now that some sort of human expiation has been = served.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I think the best summation of this state of affairs = -- and,=20 IMHO a much better encapsulation of the themes of TBOTNS than = "Empires of=20 Foliage and Flower" -- is Melito's Story -- "The Cock, the = Angel and=20 the Eagle" from Citadel, wherein the Angel (Briah) sends down the = Eagle=20 (the worm in the heart of the Old Sun/the fountain in the heart of the = New Sun)=20 to kick the ass of the Cock (humanity) in a neat bit of overkill, = apparently in=20 response to the cock's vanity and ambition. Two very interesting = things=20 happen at the end of the slaughter -- the Cock, speaking perhaps of all = human=20 nature, says it wouldn't, and couldn't, have acted any differently (or = as Sev=20 tells us, twice, "That we are only capable of being what we are = remains our=20 unforgiveable sin") and that the Angel has no more idea of God's = will or=20 the nature of divine justice than any of us do ("'The Pancreator is = infinitely far from us,' the angel said. 'And thus infinitely far = from me,=20 though I fly so much higher than you. I guess at his desires -- no = one can=20 do otherwise.'").</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Whether Sev was right to do what he did -- or = whether he was=20 anything more than a puppet in what transpired -- is open to = debate. If we=20 do accept that somehow he was a necessary element for the gestation of = the New=20 Sun (which I doubt) I'm guessing he made his choice for personal = reasons: =20 The Green Man from Ushas was curious, honourable and brave. Master = Ash=20 from Ragnarock was withdrawn, passive and aloof. I hope that, = given the=20 death toll involved, Sev made the right decision.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Ori</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE8B8C.70B142A0-- *More Wolfe info & archive of this list at http://www.urth.net/urth/