From: "Chris" 
Subject: Re: (urth) Rape and Misogyny in Wolfe
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 18:39:24 +0000

Having time only for a "short" reply...

To Nutria: No offense taken, at least by me. I just couldn't be sure, and 
wanted to clarify what was being talked about.

re: the question at hand
There is one, I believe, in the Latro books. The way those are written makes 
the incident hazy in my memory and I unfortunately can't dredge up the 
details (might as well ask Latro, for all the good I am there).

Best example, I believe, is Horn and Seawrack in OBW.

Severian, of course, you've mentioned.

Silk doesn't seem to get dragged into this (at least not in the Long Sun 
series), but Auk does.

Usually there are extenuating circumstances, as alga pointed out. These 
extenuating circumstances aren't enough to excuse any of them, however (as 
Horn himself points out to Seawrack, and Auk may have said something similar 
come to think of it).

re: misogyny, I tend to think the word has been extended to refer to a lot 
of things beyond its real scope - such that it gets to be very difficult to 
have a sensible discussion about it. I would vigorously deny that Wolfe is a 
misogynist if the accusation were made. A claim might be made that his 
metaphors and female characters reflect a general attitude that is 
objectionable - to actually debate that would require such care that I'm not 
sure I'm quite smart enough to take part in that. But even if you grant that 
much, this is still not misogyny IMHO.

>I feeling pretty dense right now since I can think of only one rape in my
>reading of Wolfe right now: the infamous act by Severian on the
>semi-conscious Jolenta. I'm tracing my memory for any others and I just
>can't come up with any others -- I recently re-read tFHoC and I don't 
>recall
>a rape of a female slave.
>
>I for one would appreciate a listing of the rapes -- particularly any "Rape
>as Salvation" events (the Jolenta one does not apply IMO).
>
>Also, it has been frequently reference that Wolfe exhibits misogyny. I've
>yet to encounter it (and notice it -- which may be revealing about me). I'm
>curious what other readers have read in Wolfe that they consider to be
>misogynistic. Possibly it is in works I've yet to read.
>
>As a premtive shot, I don't consider the Trivigaunti to an example of
>misogyny. Trivigaunte does not seem to be anymore distopian than Viron 
>which
>is quite machismotic -- and we are constantly reminded that men aren't
>treated any worse there than women are in Viron.
>
>--- Crush
>
>
>
>--


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